The Philadelphia 76ers handed the Charlotte Bobcats their 15th consecutive loss on Monday en route to their 20th win of the season. The final score indicates the Sixers won by a decent margin, but the game was uncomfortably close from about the midway point of the third quarter on. The lead was as small as a two points a few times, including as late as 6:31 left in the fourth, following a miracle Kemba Walker three. However; a few seconds later Louis Williams answered with a three of his own, igniting a 17-10 Sixers run to end the game.
After the game Lou essentially admitted to Meredith Marakovits that the Sixers lost focus in the third quarter because the Bobcats suck, they had blown them out before and they were looking ahead to Orlando. At least he's honest. This team has spoiled us all season by not only beating inferior opponents, but never leaving any doubt. Monday they let the Bobcats hang in the game, gain confidence and make the Sixers work a little harder for their 20th win then they probably should have.
Losing focus and looking ahead aren't necessarily things you want one of your players admitting to, but to spin it positively, at least the team, via Boss, acknowledges they let up and that, along with Collins, will likely prevent it from happening too often. Up to this point, the Sixers have earned a free pass for games like this.
What's weird about all of this is, the Sixers won a road game by nine points in a place they hadn't won in six trips and the story-line is "The Sixers won, but not impressively". As Tom Pavlo pointed out on Twitter, this might have been the type of game the Sixers would have lost in previous years. They completely let up in the third and the Bobcats had all the momentum, plus growing confidence and the "crowd" behind them. This year's version of the Sixers never flinched. They went to work and won the game.
In a game like this, there was more good than bad, but I'll focus on the good and sweep the bad under the rug cause I'm feeling sexy on the eve of Valentine's Day. Make the jump.
- Jrue Holiday has been the victim of mass criticism this season for his shot selection and lack of free throws. He followed up his season-high eight free throw attempts on Saturday with half that on Monday, but was in full attack mode in the first quarter/half. He finished with 19 points on 15 shots and only one assist, but he really did play great basketball in the first half. He was driving to the paint relentlessly, either finishing or setting up his teammates and mixed in a beautiful post-up-fadeaway-swish over Kemba. He disappeared in the second half, but that's normally what happens with this team – everybody gets their shots – and he hit a big shot late in the fourth. Most importantly, I don't recall a single long two Jrue attempted.
- Iguodala passed the ball well tonight and had a team-high nine assists.
- Thaddeus Young scored 20 points on only nine shots. He incredible efficiency can be credited to his season-high nine free throw attempts. His post-work, foot-work and garbage-into-gold-work were all, for lack of a better word, working, tonight. His patented awkward-looking lefty baby hooks still surprise me when they go in, but they do more often than not. There was once sequence when Thad put on a display of flawless footwork in the post against one of the league's better shot-blockers in Tyrus Thomas – a thing of beauty.
- Boss was Boss, leading the team and the Night Shift in scoring with 23 points. It only took 14 shots for Lou to reach 23, so the verdict is ... good Boss tonight. He was also second on the team in assists with four (to only one turnover), including a brilliant pass to Thad early in the game. The highlight of Lou's night was the previously mentioned three-pointer following Kemba's hail mary and the 28-foot dagger he hit just for show with 28 seconds remaining.
- Nikola Vucevic played very well off the bench, scoring eight points (on eight shots), 10 rebounds (eight defensive) and two blocks. Vooch is never going to be an efficient scorer because he never gets to the three throw line, but can be a very effective big off the bench. What he lacks for athleticism, he makes up for with pure basketball skill and decent awareness for a rookie. Like Thad, Vooch showed incredible footwork in the post a few times, highlighted by a brilliant up-and-under-step-through on Biyombo (I believe) which caused Marc Zumoff to react like a 12 year-old girl would if Justin Bieber re-tweeted them. He also performed adequately on the glass – a sight for sore eyes when it comes to Sixers bigs.
- Evan Turner only played 14 minutes and 42 seconds. With 7:46 remaining in the fourth he committed one of the Sixers seven turnovers, followed by a bad foul of Corey Maggette on an And1. Collins immediately pulled him for Iguodala and he never saw the court again. Read between the lines all you want, but there was just no room for Turner tonight with Boss and Thad both on fire, Iguodala's defense needed on Maggette and Meeks hitting threes.
Player of the Game: Thaddeus Young
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Collins is doing his best Eddie Jordan impression with Turner. Is it just me or is the team having less fun the last couple weeks? Collins’ personal grudges have taken some of the air out of the team. These guys all like each other, Turner is good friends with his teammates, I don’t think anyone is too happy with the garbage that is going on. They certainly have seemed less fun to watch.
splinter27 - February 13, 2012
the only way to give any Eddie Jordan impression justice you have to lose games which Collins is not.
xEgan - February 13, 2012
Eddie Jordan’s specialty (in both DC and Philly) was dishing out minutes based on his personal relationship with the player. Collins has copied it. And Collins will be winning as many playoff series here as Jordan did, and that’s the only impression that matters.
splinter27 - February 13, 2012
Comparing Doug Collins with Eddie Jordan is a bit ridiculous. Edide Jordan is one of the worst NBA coaches in the last decade, and I sincerely doubt that Doug Collins would choose to ‘copy’ any Eddie Jordan strategy. I’d like Turner to get more minutes too, but the fact of the matter is, today, Meeks was the more effective player. It’s not like Meeks and Turner are similar players with the same skill set, and Collins is choosing one over the other. Turner also had 3 fouls in his 15 minutes tonight, and the sixers were +13 with Meeks on the floor. Again, I’m not saying Meeks should be getting Turner’s minutes consistently, cause Turner is obviously the better player…but give Collins some credit, he has a young team playing hard and winning without a true scorer on the squad.
Illipsis - February 13, 2012
Meeks was brick city tonight. There was nothing good about tonight’s game, we barely beat the Bobcats. Collins gets credit for motivating the team to play hard, sure, but every team plays hard in the playoffs so it’s not as big a deal as it seems in the long run.
splinter27 - February 13, 2012
Really? I mean i agree that Turner should play more, but really? Theyre still winning games, so this is what you have to resort to saying?
jefu - February 14, 2012 via mobile
Less fun to watch!?! They’re 20 and 9!!! You had more fun watching them some other time recently?
J.P.Melle - February 14, 2012
No way should jodie meeks get TWICE the amount of minutes ET does. I understand that Doug wants to put the best lineup on the floor but ET is far more versatile than jodie for him to only play 14 minutes. I just hope that Doug is being extra hard on Turner so he can get the best out of him.
Tj Singh - February 13, 2012 via mobile
It’s well past that, don’t you think? There’s no way this has anything to do with Collins trying to get the most out of Turner. He doesn’t like Turner, he loves Meeks, and that’s all that matters in his mind. Stinks for us when we get creamed in the playoffs because we’re playing a minor-league level shooting guard 33 minutes a game.
splinter27 - February 13, 2012
You’re ridiculous. What evidence do you have for anything other then you complaining about Turners playing time? That’s like saying Doug Collins has massive documented hatred for Francisco Elson because he never sees the court. .Noce? Dude frenched Doug’s wife and hasn’t seen the court since!
xEgan - February 13, 2012
I knew it!
Michael Levin - February 13, 2012
that would be right
except ET is one of our best players
bigdogg - February 13, 2012
Uh, no
One of our most talented players? Yes. One of our highest-ceiling players? Yes. But right now ET is not on the level of our best guys as an all-around player.
Xeynon - February 13, 2012
Uh, maybe
How will we know if he is one our best players if he never gets consistent minutes? I’m with Splinter on this.
LeJclair1 - February 14, 2012
Likewise
RedHopeful - February 14, 2012
He gets minutes. He plays more than 1/2 of each game. I think that is enough for the coach to get a good handle of his value to this team. Unfortunately, the team has been more effective when he has been on the bench than when he is on the floor (per 100 possessions they are +14.7 with ET on the bench vs +11.5 when he is on the floor.)
That does not put any blame on ET, and they are still a winning team with him on the floor. But it does mean that the line-ups without ET are finding more success than the line-ups with ET. A lot of that has to do with overlapping talents. ET is a good defender but probably not as good as the guy he subs in for (Iguodala or Jrue.)
Now these numbers are about the same for Meeks, lou and Iguodala. Honestly, it is Jrue and Thad who really drive the team’s success by this measure… The team is basically flat when Young is on the bench and +16 when he is in the line-up.
But it is hard to complain about a guy’s minutes when the team is more successful when they are on the bench. An believe me, Collins is the type of coach who knows these numbers,. And that is partly why he is so quick to say how much he loves Thad and what he brings to the team.
tk76 - February 14, 2012
I’m not going to do the research…but since the Denver game he has not been getting consistent minutes. My opinion is that 30+ minutes would be a good way to gauge ET’s value. Also, don’t assume that Collins uses these numbers because that is a poor way to argue. He could just as easily be using turnovers to fuel his lineup decisions. I understand your argument for the success of the team right now, which definitely makes sense, but I want success now and even more success in the future (which largely depends on ET’s evolution) and I am of the opinion that he needs more minutes to reach his peak potential.
LeJclair1 - February 14, 2012
you should do the research if you’re going to make comments like this.
jefu - February 14, 2012
Your right…its only been the last 5 games that his minutes have dramatically dropped…regardless that doesn’t really affect my opinion/statement. Why be a dick though?
LeJclair1 - February 14, 2012
It was a suggestion. If you want to sound more convincing, you have to back up your statements. No need to be offended.
jefu - February 15, 2012
I guess everything is “ridiculous” to you. Funny how it’s “ridiculous” to compare Collins and Jordan on a distinct characteristic that they share (holding personal grudges) but it’s fine to compare the minutes of Turner and Francisco Elson as if they are equivalent players.
splinter27 - February 13, 2012
What are you talking about?
What evidence do you have that Collins has a personal grudge against Evan Turner? To me it seems the far more credible explanation is that Meeks gives the team something Turner doesn’t (outside shooting), and everything Turner does do well (defense on the wing, creating his own shot off the dribble, handling the ball), other players on the team (Holiday, Iguodala, etc.) do better, making him somewhat redundant.
Xeynon - February 13, 2012
They dont have this distinct characteristic. Youre just saying they do.
jefu - February 14, 2012 via mobile
you already have us losing in the playoffs
the neener - February 13, 2012
Good chance we play Boston, NY, or whatever team Dwight Howard is on. And I don’t see us beating any of them. We barely beat the Bobcats!
splinter27 - February 13, 2012
Pump the brakes a bit. I think you’re overreacting about a game that we ultimately ended up winning easily.
TheNest953 - February 13, 2012
You’re the type of person who looks outside at night time and starts to panic because the sun’s not gonna come up
CPaulin - February 14, 2012
I don’t think its far fetched when ET’s low minutes is not becoming a CONSISTENT issue.
Gosu44 - February 14, 2012
notGosu44 - February 14, 2012
I’m trying to get what your point is here. Are you trying to say:
1. The Sixers are a rebuilding team and should forget wins and go with player development.
or
2. If the Sixers played Turner 35 minutes a game and cut Meeks they would beat those teams in the playoffs.
Please clarify because I’m not getting from point A (ET is in the Doug-house) to point B (the Sixers are not going anywhere in the playoffs this year.
BTW, I am trademarking “Doug-house” so you all have to reference me on it in any future use :)
tk76 - February 14, 2012
I think his argument is that turner is better than merks and should be starting over him. Also that starting automatically means more minutes.
jefu - February 14, 2012 via mobile
Merks =meeks
and has nothing to do with getting merk’d.
jefu - February 14, 2012 via mobile
That would be “m3rks”.
dweebowitz - February 14, 2012
I laughed.
Michael Levin - February 14, 2012
as did I.
jefu - February 14, 2012
My point is that they are better with Turner than Meeks. This is not about player development at the expense of the team. This is about making the team better now so we can win a playoff series (which I don’t think we can do playing a 3-point specialist 30+ minutes a game).
splinter27 - February 14, 2012
tough night but they still beat teams they should beat which is good
Randy Marsh - February 13, 2012
Until Turner starts playing above average in the minutes he does get, any complaints about him not getting more minutes are silly. We’re a contending team, not a “baby our young players” team. If Turner plays more minutes, I don’t expect him to play any better than he’s playing right now. Meeks gets more minutes than Turner because Meeks can shoot the 3 and Turner tends to just replicate what other players on the floor.
I just don’t see stardom in Turner’s future. I see a roleplayer who rebounds well. That’s basically what he is now. Maybe he’ll surprise me. I just don’t see it.
Also, seriously, everybody who says that Collins has a grudge against Turner because of the towel throwing incident or that he’s losing the team or whatever needs to take a deep breath. Doug Collins wants to win. The rest of the team wants to win. What I see is a coach giving players minutes equal to what he feels they deserve and a team that’s just wearing down in a season that has them playing 4 games a week, just like most teams are.
duckyninja - February 13, 2012
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/Collins-and-Turner-discuss-players-lack-of-playing-time.html
They’ve already talked about it. Turner wants to play more, like any player should, and Collins explained that it was a matter of his defense not being as good as Iguodala’s and his shooting not being as good as Meeks’.
duckyninja - February 13, 2012
If being superior at shooting the 3 was a general criteria for getting minutes, Meeks would get minutes over Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and Dwayne Wade.
We are the only team in the NBA that thinks 3-point shooting is how you analyze whether a player should be getting 30+ minutes.
splinter27 - February 13, 2012
Collins uses him to space the floor. He’s the only player other than Lou (or Iguodala if you believe he can keep shooting at this rate) who can shoot the 3 consistently, and he’s by far our best 3 point shooter. I do think E.T. should be getting more minutes, but if you look at it he averages 24 per, so hopefully tonight was an aberration.
TheNest953 - February 13, 2012
How you fit in the lineup is the general criteria. The team needs what Meeks brings to the team more than it needs what Turner brings to the team.
Your arguments are the silliest I’ve seen since LeQuan.
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
Always good to see people come out and attack those who present an argument contrary to the groupthink. Makes for great discussion! Is this an open blog or is it “yoyosean’s way or the highway.”
Get over yourself dude.
splinter27 - February 14, 2012
Yes. It’s because your argument is contrary to “groupthink” (even though I’m sure more people support Turner than Meeks but let’s ignore that for now) and not because you’re twisting other people’s arguments in absurd ways.
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
Dude stop supporting group think. Some of us like to think differently...
xEgan - February 14, 2012
He’s not getting minutes only because he hits threes. Youre missing the point, and i think youre missing it on purpose. At least, i’d like to think you are.
jefu - February 14, 2012 via mobile
Look at OKC
The start Sefolosha between Westbrook and Durant for the same reason the Sixers start Meeks.
By you logic OKC “hates” Harden. Although Harden gets 5 more minutes per game than ET, you can argue that Harden has earned those minutes. He went from 23 to 26 to 31 minutes… and there is no reason why ET through his play cannot make the same progression.
tk76 - February 14, 2012
Give Turner starters minute and thus the opportunity to prove what he is capable of for christsakes
That’s the benefit Meeks got when he was bricking every 3 in the beginning of the season and letting every player blow past him on defense.
Gosu44 - February 14, 2012
I would like to point out that opposing SGs have a PER/48 of 9.6 this season. That is well below league average (or well above league average defense).
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
I should probably also mention that I’m talking about Meeks.
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
Meeks does a good job in his role (shooting 3s and spacing the floor), but lets not pretend that hes a good defender. Anytime the opposing team has a good SG the Sixers usually put Jrue or Andre on them and switch Meeks to someone else. So the low PER/48 for opposing SGs has more to do with Andre and Jrue shutting down the few good SGs that we faced.
ark88 - February 14, 2012
Not necessarily saying he is. But the numbers say that his supposedly poor defending isn’t hurting the team at all.
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
Can we just trade Evan Turner please? If he is going to be criminally misused then what’s the point? I like Doug. I like Evan, I would like to see Evan continue to develop but I am not sure if that is going to happen on this team.
EREX21 - February 14, 2012
that’s the mentality the Bobcats had with their young players under Larry Brown. He wasn’t playing them, ship them out. A lot of good it did that franchise.
splinter27 - February 14, 2012
I don’t think that is how Collins handles all young players, Vuc is getting time. Jrue was a starter last year, it just seems like for some reason ET has a short leash. Maybe there is more to it than what is known by the fans and media but something just seems off.
EREX21 - February 14, 2012
I don’t agree with anything splinter27 has said in this thread but playing Devil’s advocate, Vuc and Allen are only getting extended PT b/c Hawes went down and EB is on his last legs, Jrue started last year b/c we didn’t have any other choice. That said, I don’t think Collins is criminally mismanaging ET, at worst, he’s probably marginally mismanaging him. In the end, I’m apt to side with Collins, so far, based on the results (i.e. wins). ET has shown flashes for sure and he’s part of our future but I don’t have a problem with Collins laying down the law. Last night was a case in point, ET makes a very lazy turnover on offense and then an absolute boneheaded defensive foul for the & 1. Collins had to pull ET there not only to teach ET a lesson but also to make a point to the team. Of all the nights, last night wasn’t a good example of Collins mismanaging ET.
dp - February 14, 2012
And he could very well be playing veterans like Tony Battie or Francisco Elson. Instead he’s letting the rookies play. This goes in contrast to the opinion that Collins doesn’t play young players.
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
Not to mention that this has nothing to do with Turner since Meeks is only a year older than Turner.
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
DC did play Battie when Hawes first went down. If you recall, Battie even got a couple starts. Once Vuc and Allen played better than expected and Battie, not surprisingly – sucked, even DC couldn’t justify throwing Battie out there. Fro was bench/practice fodder so I don’t think you can read much into DC not using him as an indication one way or the other.
dp - February 14, 2012
And people seem to think there’s the same disparity between Meeks and Turner that there is between Battie and Vuc.
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
#FreeFrancisoElson
xEgan - February 14, 2012
I don’t have a problem with Collins laying down the law so long as he does it consistently and I am not 100% sold that he does. I’ve seen him do it with E.T. I’ve seen him do it with Jrue but does he ever do it when Lou takes God awful shots? Or does he just accept that as part of who Boss is? To say nothing for the fact that Boss hasn’t played defense a day in his life.
EREX21 - February 14, 2012
Why does DC have to treat everyone consistently? This isn’t little league. Not everyone has to be treated the same. Some times there are legitimate and justifiable reasons to treat people differently. Sometimes there aren’t, that’s life. I’m sure DC is comfortable with the Boss (for example) b/c he knows exactly what he’s getting (i.e. live by the Boss, die by the Boss). That’s Boss’ role though, whether it be here or anywhere else (think poor man’s Jason Terry). ET isn’t the Boss though, that is, he doesn’t have that type of game. Therefore, DC is trying to get ET to understand that if ET wants to last in this league/make a name for himself, it’s not turning the ball over, playing defense, and working within the offense. Same with Meeks. DC just needs Meeks to shoot 3s, whether they go in or not. Meeks just has to be a threat, that’s all. Again, it’s about roles and ET needs to learn and play his role. Finally, I think DC has been accommodating, to an extent, and willing to change. For example, hes done a better job as the season goes on by putting ET on the ball and moving Jrue off the ball.
dp - February 14, 2012
Because if he does not and the players see it, he risks losing the team.
Ben16 - February 14, 2012
This. Among other reasons but definitely this.
EREX21 - February 14, 2012
I really doubt any of the players see it that way especially since you keep forgetting how each one effects another on the floor. The only reason Meeks starts over Turner is spacing on the floor from his 3 point shooting. If Turner starting effects everyone elses game in a negative manner why would they get upset if he doesn’t play? Come on now.
xEgan - February 14, 2012
I didn’t say anything about Turner starting. In fact, that isn’t even my issue with Doug. Generally I think it makes the most sense to start your best players. But Turner off the bench and Meeks starting seems to work for this team and I am fine with that. My issue is with the short leash Turner has, and the lack of minutes he has been getting lately.
EREX21 - February 14, 2012
Poppycock gentlemen! It happens all the time, Larry Brown didn’t lose the Sixers, Phil didn’t lose the Bulls/Lakers, etc. When a team wins, everything is okay. When a team loses, sure, fissures occur and people start chirping. This team is winning and by all accounts (from the outside looking in) everyone has completely bought in. Some people on this thread might think ET is disgruntled or try to project their displeasure onto ET, but other than ET, who else is allegedly disgruntled? Everyone is playing a roll on a winning team. Even if ET were the only one and even if he were justified, b/c I agree DC seems to have him on a short leash, no one else on the team seems to care about poor ET’s “predicament”. DC may lose this team at some point but I don’t think we’re close. Give it another year or 2. At that point, most of the guys on the team will have been around the block and the DC den mother act will wear thin.
dp - February 14, 2012
Why? A coach is supposed to manage players based on their talent and personalities. This is not a 8 year old rec league where all players deserve equal treatment. Do you think Phil Jackson treated MJ the same as Rodman the same as Luc Longley? And why should he.
Players earn a coaches trust. Others get special treatment based on where they were drafted or their future in the organization. Which is why ET can expect somewhat regular minutes and Lavoy Allen has to be happy getting thrown a bone.
tk76 - February 14, 2012
Yeah, I heard Luc Longley got all the perks…
dweebowitz - February 14, 2012
Ha
“After the game Lou essentially admitted to Meredith Marakovits that the Sixers lost focus in the third quarter because the Bobcats suck, they had blown them out before and they were looking ahead to Orlando. At least he’s honest.”
I had to miss watching the game (my first all season) largely due to the reasons Lou explained post-game.
Three - February 14, 2012
We could beat the Heat & people would still complain about ETs minutes
KJ Brophy - February 14, 2012
That’s silly. We can’t beat Miami ;)
yosoysean - February 14, 2012
ET
turner seems to have some some weak fouls called against him lately. I missed this game, but watching recently whenever this happens you can see his confidence fall.
DaaaBirdsDaBirds - February 14, 2012
When did this become the Piss in your corn flakes blog
FFS we won last night. Get a grip.
ET’s just going through some growing pains. He’s shown he can be effective, but he needs to figure some stuff out on defense, specifically, team defense.
TheAL76 - February 14, 2012
That’s what happens when you don’t play anyone, your coach sucks, and your alleged best player all star is a coward.
dp - February 14, 2012 via mobile
but his defense isn't the key focus
development in his ability to drive to the basket or pull up for a shot is on the forefront. IMO development in that area is needed more then his already above average defense.
DaaaBirdsDaBirds - February 14, 2012
Turner, Turner, Turner
Not that great a player. Better than Meeks? Sure, but Meeks has a skillset Turner doesn’t have. Turner isn’t as big as Thad, isn’t as fast as Jrue, isn’t as strong as Iguodala, doesn’t shoot as well as Boss or Meeks…that’s why he doesn’t get more minutes.
Dan Pearson - February 14, 2012
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